The Craft of Songwriting with Andrea Stolpe - Music Production Podcast #382

Andrea Stolpe is a renowned, multi-platinum creative consultant whose methodology for songwriters and music artists has been taught worldwide. A writer with 20+ years of experience in the music industry, Andrea has written for such artists as Faith Hill, Julianne Hough, and Jimmy Wayne. She has turned her experience into award-winning online courses and live events as well as numerous articles, books, and resources.

As one who has followed and learned from her for years, I really enjoyed speaking with Andrea. She shared lots of practical songwriting advice musicians from any genre can use. Andrea shared her story and how she continues to hone her songwriting craft. We spoke about the vulnerability and openness songwriting requires, as well as how to grow by working with collaborators. 

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Takeaways:

  • Simplicity is key in songwriting, focusing on the core elements of melody, lyrics, rhythm, and chords.

  • Focus on expressing yourself authentically.

  • Write songs that have substance and meaning, rather than relying on cliches or low-hanging fruit.

  • Collaboration and production can enhance a song's message and impact.

  • Take the time to reflect on your songs and identify areas where they may need improvement or refinement.

  • Feedback from others can be useful, but it is important for songwriters to stay true to their own instincts and not try to wear other people's ideas as their own.

  • Specific details in lyrics can create a vivid and relatable experience for listeners, but it is important to find the right balance between specificity and universality.

  • Songwriting retreats provide a supportive and collaborative environment for songwriters to connect with others, overcome creative blocks, and make progress in their writing.

  • The creative process is a journey of exploration and reaction, and it is important to embrace both the creative and critical aspects of songwriting.

  • Having the right tools and techniques can help songwriters overcome challenges and make their creative process more efficient and effective.

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Thank you for listening. 

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.002)

Okay, Andrea, welcome to the music production podcast. Great to have you.

Andrea Stolpe (00:04.792)

Thank you so much for having me.

Brian Funk (00:08.127)

It's a pleasure because I've learned a lot from you. I follow you on Instagram. We're both Berklee Online teachers. So I get students once in a while that have had you and you're putting out great material, valuable songwriting advice, and even some more like philosophical stuff just about kind of the mental stuff we all go through with music making. So it's great to get a chance to sit down, figure out what it's all about with you.

Andrea Stolpe (00:36.322)

Thank you so much. I hope I have something useful to say.

Brian Funk (00:41.332)

I'm sure you do. I've seen it before. So yeah. Yeah, so you do so much great work teaching Berkeley online, but your Instagram is a really great source for, you know, songwriting, just ideas getting started. I was wondering though, if you can kind of take us through maybe some of the stuff that got you here, like especially your time in Nashville sounds like a really.

Andrea Stolpe (00:44.598)

Okay, all right, we'll just repeat the pattern here.

Andrea Stolpe (00:59.895)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10.732)

transformative part of your life.

Andrea Stolpe (01:13.802)

Yeah, well, so I call Nashville the master's degree of the Berklee program, right? When you go through the songwriting curriculum at Berklee, you hopefully have teachers like Jimmy Kachoulis in melody writing and Pat Patterson in lyric writing. And from that, you get this toolkit, which, you know, it's like if you're an instrumentalist, you kind of have an idea of

well, there's a gap between where I am right now and where, you know, the players I aspire to be like are. And it's that application of the tools until they become intuitive. And so that's where Nashville felt like that constant study with now no direction on, I doing this right? Am I doing this right? Because no collaborator there is going to be able to tell you what the tools are. They don't know, really.

They just do what they do, so they think, right? But all along the way of writing so, so many songs and emulating others who use popular song structure or even feeling intuitively the difference between a lyric that's visceral and interesting versus one that's just a thought or a feeling or a statement that's not all that uncommon in songs.

Yeah, you start to recognize, I know stuff. know, a few years later, you're like, wow, I can, I feel more opinionated, more strongly about what I want to write, what I don't want to write, and what sounds like everything else I've written. And the thing about Nashville is such a concentration of writers that it's impossible not to run into someone who really humbles you.

And I think that's part of the value of being at a school like Berkeley. You you walk in the door and you're like, crap, that's improv. I had no idea. Or, okay, I thought I was comping all right. But it's like Nashville is that way with songwriting, I think. And it's such good practice to be told, don't write something esoteric or something, you know.

Andrea Stolpe (03:30.827)

I don't want to hear therapy about you. I want to hear a song that fits into a commercial market, which implies that it has a hook and it has a title on which everything is built. And though a country music certainly doesn't, I wouldn't categorize it by being particularly harmonically sophisticated.

but it's that way lyrically, right? It really sets the bar for clarity of characters and who and when and where and all these things that are hard. It's hard to be specific in songwriting and still be confident that we're being universal. So I think that's the training that Nashville offers. Not that you can't get that other places, absolutely, but you're in a hotbed of other people who

will very willingly give you commentary on whether your song is working or not. And it's all measured by this commercial narrow lane that if you can feel what that is and over time develop a sense for what that is and then write to it and match it while staying one step ahead of it because you don't want to write what everybody else just wrote. That's a tough thing.

really tough and that I would say would be how I got to where I am wherever I am I'm not really sure but looking back I think that's what that time was for.

Brian Funk (05:07.767)

Yeah, I guess it helps you develop a tough skin too, right? To constantly be scrutinized like that.

Andrea Stolpe (05:11.787)

man, I'm such a wimp. growing up in Minnesota where, you know, not all Minnesotans are like this, but in a very intellectualized science based family, know, don't share, feelings are, you can have them, you know, just keep them to yourself. So I think the idea of getting that kind of criticism, it's so, so very vulnerable. And the, that sinking feeling when

Brian Funk (05:16.916)

Yeah

Andrea Stolpe (05:40.998)

someone who knows, you know, let's say a publisher from whom you feel like you're asking favors has something to say about your song but they can't offer you ways to fix it necessarily. It's that feeling of, my god, now I have to rewrite the whole song and I'm already neck deep in it. I don't know what to change. I don't know what not to change. Yeah, it's enough to make anyone pack up and move, you know. Yeah.

Brian Funk (06:10.391)

That's a hard moment too because you've probably already spent so much time with the song and it's really hard to see it in a different way. It's already sort of become this thing to you and we already know what we're trying to communicate. So it's hard to know if the other person, the listener is receiving that.

Andrea Stolpe (06:30.757)

It's really hard. think, I mean, it's like anything else. It's like listening to a mix for 10 hours, right? You need to take breaks. And I think it's kind of the difficult thing when you haven't written songs, you're not fast until you're fast and you have written songs. And so it's kind of this cycle where I'd like to be faster, but when I'm faster, I can't.

Brian Funk (06:38.262)

Hmm.

Andrea Stolpe (07:00.408)

I can't write fast and yet speed is what we need to be able to, I think, maintain that initial period of objectivity, that feeling where you're just responding to what's coming out. I liked that. I like what I just did. Or, no, I'm not going to bother pushing record because I feel like I'm still getting there. I think those feelings are really valid. And I always say, like, if you can't trust your instinct, then

you know, no wonder it takes hours and hours and And no wonder we hold on to every idea or can't finish songs because now there is no guide. There's only externally, I think I should be writing a really great lyric. Well, what is a great lyric? I don't know, but I'll know it when I hear it, you know. That's a really frustrating place to be. I think that's partly why I do what I do is because I remember that feeling like it was yesterday.

And I'm still there. I still get terrified when I sit down to write something. And I still think, I'm never going to find my way through this idea ever. And then you start to, and you're like, OK, I think I can do this one more time.

Brian Funk (08:16.045)

funny you say that. I think I need to start a tally list, like kind of like a T -chart of people that find it easy, people that still struggle with it. And I don't think I'd have any checks on the people that find it easy chart. Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (08:25.037)

Amen.

Andrea Stolpe (08:28.406)

Yeah, they're liars. They're liars. Or, you know, they've just gotten really used to doing what they do. I think many of us sit down and we want to originate. You we want to discover what else there could be. Rather than... Yeah, there's nothing wrong with just entertaining. That's wonderful. But I think also, you there's certainly a stigma that if you've been putting out the same kind of songs...

doing the same thing for a long, long time, we do maybe start to wonder. unless you're iconic, I suppose, and that's just, you know, you're Sinatra and that's really just what you do. And that's all we want to know. That might be another thing. But yeah, I think that discovery process, that sense of I just want to capture what is unknown is part of what leads to that beautiful oceanic feeling when you're in the flow. And it's also

that frustrating, you know, kind of drives you to your grave, of divides all your relationships, kind of feeling, too. It's really hard to live that way. So I think that's where a certain amount of tools -based structured daily writing, I think, is what really resonates with me, because it's how I meet the stuff I don't understand with the stuff I can understand.

That was a lot in one answer. Reel me in whenever you need to.

Brian Funk (09:57.549)

Right, to just... Well, yeah. That's why we're here, right?

Brian Funk (10:06.517)

No, no, no. I always find that these episodes are the best when I look at the waveforms afterwards and I barely have any movement on it. So the more I listen.

Andrea Stolpe (10:17.176)

we.

wow.

Brian Funk (10:22.631)

that idea of like just the routine of it, I think is kind of counterintuitive to maybe what people think in the beginning that you sort of need the inspiration. You needed that lightning bolt to strike you. I've, I'm really a believer that you have to like make the lightning bolt strike and go out and find it and show up and hold the lightning rod at the sky over and over again, before that really ever happens. It's for me.

Andrea Stolpe (10:46.515)

Right?

Brian Funk (10:51.496)

It's kind of a rare feeling that like, got an idea. Let's go.

Andrea Stolpe (10:54.887)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. it, I mean, every creative person is going to have this. If you're a producer, if you're an engineer, if you're a writer, a painter, know, I mean, sports players, I imagine it's very similar in that the more you do it, the more moments of lightning that strike. I found that to be true in my own experience, and that's what I hear other people say.

And then a common complaint from us songwriters is that we only have the duration of that lightning strike to then write something and finish it. And clearly that's terrifying and not realistic way to be that you have to stop whatever you're doing and make sure you have something come out that's now structured in the way that you would

musically wanted to be. think that's pretty unrealistic. Sometimes songs come out that way and I think sometimes I feel like we use them as a see, see it can work, it can or look how talented they are. It just came out all at once in 20 minutes. I think I heard Lady Gaga say that about a song and you know Ace of Base wrote like the last tune on the album that became this big hit you know.

that way where they're just like, need another song. And so in the studio, they're just mapping it out. I think it can happen, but it's interesting how, you know, those things also tend to happen after people have had lots of experience. So yes, it's going to happen more and more. And if I told anybody, like you have to write a song in 20 minutes or I'll take your first born.

You know, they're going to do it. It's not then. the implication there is I want to write a song, you know, I want to write more quickly. I would say, no, you want to write something great more quickly. So, you know, what's it going to be? I would also like a really nice house for 400 K in LA, but that's just not going to happen. So, you know, you kind of have to pick your battles here. And I think that's an

Andrea Stolpe (13:18.435)

a thing where I like to separate the brainstorming from the editing. Because once we get the material on the page or recorded that we can work with, there's usually a lot more that comes out than we really need. So musically, we're sort of toying with a motif or toying with a riff, or we've got a chord progression that kind of, as we play it, grows.

And then, but the point where you have to sit down and say, okay, I think the inspiration has fizzled now. Then we look at what we have and I think we get disappointed like, well, it's not done. Now what do I do? And we have to make decisions, you know? And I wouldn't say that songwriters are what come to mind when I think of really decisive people. think we're kind of like, you know, I don't know.

Brian Funk (14:13.473)

you

Andrea Stolpe (14:17.016)

I like all of this, you know, which is another way of saying, I don't know how to evaluate what is needs to be in this song and what doesn't need to be in this song. Because frankly, when I write, I make it about me. It's all about me, you know, and I think some of that's reflected in the culture, particularly with pop music and country music, commercial music these days. It's definitely...

I wish we would get back to thinking about what's good for the song rather than what's good for the artist or what's good for hitting culture right where it hurts. So we can talk more about that.

Brian Funk (15:06.561)

Yeah, I can think about that in terms of the production, the arrangement and all that kind of stuff where most of the time when it's time to put my songs together, it's a matter of taking stuff away, clearing out the path so like you can see this idea clearly. And sometimes that's hard to identify. And a lot of times I figure it out by just kind of one by one taking things out until you've got

Andrea Stolpe (15:12.419)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (15:21.911)

Yes.

Andrea Stolpe (15:26.573)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (15:36.426)

bare bones and then really that's the theme so let's really emphasize that. But you mentioned like taking it away from the me and making it more culturally significant I'd like to know what you mean by that a little bit more. How do do that?

Andrea Stolpe (15:53.4)

I an intended on talking about that. You know, it's funny. I never know how I guess the older I get the more free I feel to be opinionated. I'm just, you know, working my way towards being a grumpy old woman. But, you know, maybe that would be my right to get there someday. I think, you know, someone of my age and I'm upper 40s, right? I when I try to write

I recognize that I kind of, I've written all the stuff that I hear, barring a little bit different take on culture now than when I was 19. But something that really bugs me, if I may, and we can cut this out of this or not, it's up to you, is the idea that those low -hanging fruit songs are the ones that

You know, ooh, you did me wrong and I'm not thinking about you at all. I'm so over you and yet I'm singing this song about you. You know, it's all aggressive like I'm still angry. It's like, I call it low -hanging fruit because it's such a mimicking art form and it's easy to grab. It's easy to write with anger.

as the central sort of piece to look at there. And of course, relationships are, relationships of any kind are certainly what brings meaning to so many of our songs, is how do I relate to another person? How am I relating to the world? How am I relating to an issue? Or how am I relating to what the current...

situation is or something from the past and that would be a me relating to me kind of thing. So there's always that element there I think when we write songs something that's what what have I learned what am I living what is lost you know what is loved it's the four L's I call them. But but I guess you know I I wish that songwriting and I think that there are people out there who are getting us back to

Andrea Stolpe (18:15.716)

Songs that stand the test of time. Songs that truly make a difference, you know, and make music have real meaning and reflect the meaning that's in our culture as well as bring meaning to culture. Are those that aren't just grabbing that low hanging fruit, you know, complaining songs too. It's kind of like, you know what, nobody cares if you're mad anymore.

Like I'm, and that honestly too, that can be an age thing, but also if I think about it, you know, the industry has historically in the last year has been more driven by younger folks than it has in prior times. So, you know, it's just, and so maybe there's an opportunity for people who, I'm really digging myself into it this morning. People with age behind them, you know, so you,

Brian Funk (19:12.029)

them.

Andrea Stolpe (19:12.563)

to really get in there and be like, this isn't all that we can talk about. It's all, and I don't just mean lyrically, but musically as well. And really think about how is this music purposefully making the message and the words even more meaningful and the words making the music even more meaningful. Where I think one of the things that

Nowadays, of course, with studios being so prevalent at home, which is a wonderful, wonderful thing. But I just encourage people to really test the limits of that and learn about your systems and learn about music so that it's not just, you know, here's the loop and, you know, yeah, this sounds like another pop song.

Which is going to naturally lead me to think that the only things I can write about are pop centric Or aggressive or you know, baby. I love you. Baby. You left me here You know whatever it is, but just those kind of knee -jerk reactions to where songwriting can be at in that narrow lane of sort of commercially the loudest stuff that's out there to a degree I am ranting again, do what you want with that but

Brian Funk (20:34.004)

You

Brian Funk (20:38.231)

Well, I think it's good to hear and good to think about too, that there are, like you said, almost like low hanging fruit, like obvious things, obvious places to go that get cliche after a while. And it is nice to get a fresh perspective once in a while to, as a songwriter too, right?

Andrea Stolpe (20:53.723)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (22:48.28)

You know, if I could, I will add one thing to that. The trouble is though, I can sit here and say, know, man, songs today. I wish there was more, and you know, I'm not the only one who says this, I wish there was more substance. But the truth is that, you know, we would all like to come out of the gate writing highly original stuff. But the truth is you have to go through the phases and the stages.

And it seems that one of those is this dedication to, I'm going to write something that's meaningful to me. And what's meaningful to me at 19 or 16 or 14 or 34 or 92 are kind of different, right? And so at any point, you know, we do have to kind of go through the natural states of I'm writing this kind of song and it's therapy for me. And, yeah, I guess you've heard that before, but I never have because I'm the age I am.

and I'm doing this for the first time, you know? So I think at the same time as saying, man, I wish there was more substance out there, I think it's the more experienced writers who bear the responsibility of bringing that substance in and saying, look what's possible to do. Look what you can do. And it's okay to be moving through those phases in sequential

order or however that goes, but it's often when we recognize, man, I've been writing for the industry or what I think people want to hear and I'm not successful because who is? You know, very, very, very few. It's a tough little crack to get through. I'm, it's not what I hoped it would be. Forget it. I'm just going to write stuff that I want to write. And often that's when people break.

quote unquote, whatever that is for them. So I will say, we can sit here and kind of complain about the state of things, or apparently that's where I'm at. We used to do that a lot in co -writes in Nashville, like, man, I can't believe this and that, and they didn't cut that song, and why not, and all this. But in the end, I think there's no better decision than writing things that really make you as the writer

Andrea Stolpe (25:15.197)

feel like you fully expressed yourself, you know, like, and things that I would listen to. I want to write things I would listen to. And I forgot that for a lot of years. Now, looking back, I understand that that's not uncommon, you know, where your focus is, what do they want to hear? And, you know, does it sound cool? Is it current? it, you know, man, there I am doing that Sheryl Crow thing again. You know, it's okay. You know, it takes a lot of empathy for yourself, too.

to do this because we're most often not writing anything new. And you got to do it anyway. Finish the song anyway.

Brian Funk (25:56.236)

Right. Well, I want to let you know, I appreciate your honesty about this because I, it's so common. I I've had band practice and there's almost always a point during practice where we're complaining about the state of music or why is this the popular thing, you know, and we all feel that a lot, I think, as people that make music. The idea of like making the stuff that

Andrea Stolpe (26:13.394)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (26:22.844)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (26:25.633)

you want to make has helped. the way I kind of look at it is almost like it's a, well, like a journal entry almost, I guess. Like this is where I'm at today. And today I wrote a silly song about like nonsense and it's cool. Like you're allowed to do that sometimes. And then there are other days when you're dwelling in some darkness that maybe tomorrow you look at and you're like, you know, that was a...

Andrea Stolpe (26:40.841)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (26:50.966)

passing feeling I had, it doesn't necessarily characterize me how I am all the time. So you can kind of like allow these like moments to pass just the way feelings are. They come and go and sometimes they're very ridiculous and sometimes they're very dramatic and sometimes they're underplayed even.

Andrea Stolpe (27:00.179)

Definitely.

Andrea Stolpe (27:12.337)

Yeah. Well said.

Brian Funk (27:15.159)

The songs can kind of do that too, but I think also when we decide to record our songs or perform our songs, then we start thinking, what do other people think? How is this going to come off to others? And sometimes when I start thinking that way, if I'm being clever enough, if I'm using intelligent chords and clever rhymes and all that, that's when I start getting stuck and I start questioning everything.

Andrea Stolpe (27:45.221)

Yes, absolutely. I'm right there with you. think, and that's where we start to talk about tools. What can we do to address each of those things individually instead of the song as a whole? know, because you talk about the song as a whole, if you let that picture get too big, and then it becomes a personal thing. You know, it's a personal offense that, wow, the song isn't quite what I hoped it would be.

Alright, so I can dive into tools or not.

Brian Funk (28:19.905)

Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I love that you do, which I think might be surprising to people, you know, understanding like your experience and all you've done and all you know about this is you're often advocating for pretty simple concepts. where it's, I was just watching one of your clips on Instagram was like, three chords today. That's it. Just three chords or like today your exercise is to

Andrea Stolpe (28:43.788)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (28:48.222)

hold back the tonic chord until the chorus. It's nothing too crazy and like I think anyone at any level can jump in on that.

Andrea Stolpe (28:51.087)

right.

Andrea Stolpe (28:57.933)

Yeah, that is absolutely correct. So not to get lost in the weeds because the more elements that are going on at the same time, more diverse the emotion can be or the more, I would say, the more you have to intuit the character. So in a traditional country song, you know,

We could take a...

three chords, the one chord, the four major chord, the five major chord. If you're in the key of G, it's G major, C major, D major. And you can write a wonderful song using those chords. Now, as I mentioned, I wouldn't say that country music epitomizes sophistication when it comes to harmony. And it makes sense to me.

because when I think about the characters that I know and love from traditional country music, they're grounded. are perhaps, their intention is not to be overly poetic. They're, I want to say simple and structured in the sense that...

There's not a lot of chaos maybe going on in the inside. It's, you know, they show you their colors. And it's, there's kind of clarity there. And there's, you know, that character is being expressed first and foremost in the music. There's maybe a rough around the edges kind of a sense. mean, I think Chris Christopherson, you know, it's acoustic. There's a rawness, there's Johnny Cash, Springsteen, you know.

Andrea Stolpe (30:55.083)

And I think whether that expression musically comes out of who we know ourselves to be or who we naturally are, which is also defined by the limits of our skill set, you know, I think it doesn't matter. And I think that so many of us are like, who am I as an artist? What's my sound? And I'm like, well, who do you want to be? And I think a lot of times who we want to be can be

pushing us into a direction that doesn't naturally express best who we really are. Or we get it confused with, or we're just kind of limited by our lack of skill. I would love to be a jazz singer. I don't have the natural pipes for that. I haven't trained myself on my instrument for that. So could I bring something interesting to jazz with

the skills that I have, possibly, but it's gonna be a collision that I would not be able to tell you what happened until I get in there with the other people and collaborate and we're like, whoa, that was kind of cool. Or I feel nothing. The reality is I'm gonna sing all the notes, I'm going to say the words and I'm gonna play some of the chords that the band would play. But it's not about that, right? It's that kind of.

other dimension that none of us can really say I've got the key to and I can use it anytime I want. It's the moment that happens that's kind of unpredictable. And so I think that's why I say to keep it simple because when I have just a few chords to mess around with, you know, if I'm going R &B or soul, those three chords might

probably be different than the three chords that I choose if I'm going traditional country. And that's even an interesting thing to say, like, well, how do you know that? Well, maybe if I'm trying to really epitomize the character in that style of writing, those chords might have some nuance to them that would suggest urban or a little bit of rub or dissonance or...

Andrea Stolpe (33:20.623)

reflection, thoughtfulness, and youthfulness. Whereas the other character might be more root position, know, just clean cut root third fifth. I'm not going to over complicate that character. So that's the that's the trouble and the deliverance, I think, of genre is that they make most potent the artist and so like, your country.

And then we kind of generate a expectation of lyrically and musically what that character is all about. But none of us, especially any more, really fit clean, clean cut into a single genre necessarily. Maybe when we start out because we're just emulating what, you know, and we don't know, I'm playing, you know, a strumming pattern on guitar that's gonna indicate some

you know, style that I'm doing along with the chords. So, and we choose those things a lot of times without really being aware that we've made those choices, but we're free to make those choices. So that's where I like to say, you know, play one string and just play the baseline, one string. And now you've really left yourself open, which means that you're not communicating to your listener.

what you are without knowing that you've just communicated that, if that makes any sense.

Brian Funk (34:56.288)

Gotcha, you're stripping away all of the kind of indicators of the genre and the style and just letting the kind of bare bones thought and expression come out.

Andrea Stolpe (35:01.201)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (35:10.513)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean, it's going to work for some music, of course, and not as well for others. If you're writing something that relies on a production, stripping away might lead you to think, man, there's like nothing here. This is a really cliche lyric or, you know, whatever, whatever other kind of judgments that we make. But I think by stripping away, you recognize all the pieces that you're trying to play with and what is

Brian Funk (35:24.512)

Mm

Andrea Stolpe (35:40.034)

sort of, you know, the chords themselves, we confuse with the strumming pattern, the rhythm, shall I say groove maybe, that we express those with. But those are two separate things, you know, and I think as a beginning songwriter, I mean, even, you know, at any point in time, I'm thoughtful about, well,

there are four things that I'm always able to control and it's melody, the words, the rhythm, which really means, know, what's the rhythm on piano or on guitar that I'm playing these chords with? And the last thing is the chords. And from those four things, everything, you know, stems and it becomes very complicated very quickly, you know. So it can be helpful, I think.

when writing simply, you know, start with just a few chords because that, when you do move, make it an intentional choice to bring a new color in or be aware of how does it sound when I move to the three minor chord? Is that now, what does it do for the words on top? Does it suggest now that there's a little bit of a problem or a shadow or a rub or you're thoughtful about something?

And how is that different than had you moved to the four major chord where it was uplifting or encouraging or, you know, and it's not that the three minor always does this or the four major always does that. It's in context of what you're making. It's like an organic, alive being that you're slowly recognizing who it is at any moment. And it's going to act differently as time goes on through the song.

That make sense?

Brian Funk (37:36.736)

Yeah, absolutely.

Andrea Stolpe (37:37.741)

what was in my coffee. don't know. That was a bit out there, but.

Brian Funk (37:41.942)

But you hear a lot of songwriters talk about the true test of a song is if it survives on an acoustic guitar or at the piano without all of the dressing around it. I know I do it myself where I might have a mediocre idea and I try to dress it up, put all kinds of production over it. And sometimes that can be interesting.

Andrea Stolpe (37:49.101)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (38:02.519)

Yeah. yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (38:08.247)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (38:10.014)

I mean there are definitely genres of music that are very production focused.

Andrea Stolpe (38:14.681)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Brian Funk (38:18.145)

But I do think maybe the best place to be is sort of in both if you can. But that's a hard thing to do at once. When you're trying to think that way, you can't play all those things at once and you can't make that all happen at the same time. So you need to...

Andrea Stolpe (38:26.209)

You

Andrea Stolpe (38:35.286)

Yeah, and we do reference artists and songwriters who seem to be able to do everything and do it really well, right? And think that that's our job. When in actuality there's collaboration is how most people make anything. Yeah, these days for sure.

Brian Funk (38:46.336)

Right.

Brian Funk (38:57.174)

Yeah. Well, really probably throughout time. mean, the idea of being like a solo person with your computer in your bedroom is pretty new, but a lot of people do that now. Used to be the only way you could hear music together was with people up until, you know, recording happened. So it's a funny flip we have.

Andrea Stolpe (39:14.859)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (39:18.945)

for sure.

Andrea Stolpe (39:22.623)

Yeah, it is. And I gotta think it's exactly what needs to happen and we'll come out of it knowing something we didn't before. I don't know what it is yet, but...

Brian Funk (39:34.283)

Well, I've kind of been picking up on a bit of a movement to have maybe like less polished stuff get through musically. It's a whole like lo -fi hip hop thing that's been really popular, but even just not like for a little while there, everything was just slick as could be. then, you know, stuff, even like when Billie Eilish came out, that was

shocking because it wasn't that. And it was allowed to get so sparse at times. And I think part of the benefit of that was like people really were able to connect with her because she wasn't hiding behind everything or she wasn't maybe hidden behind all the production.

Andrea Stolpe (40:22.356)

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Funk (40:25.804)

And I think maybe a lot of the complexity that we want to hear in our music is really just a couple tweaks to simple ideas. Sometimes when I'm listening to like the Beatles say, it might sound either complicated or simple depending on the song, but when you look at it, it's just a couple little things here and there. And maybe because it's not too much, you get to appreciate it more.

Andrea Stolpe (40:35.861)

Sure. Agreed.

Andrea Stolpe (40:55.945)

Yeah, I agree. You know, the songwriter can decide, any one of us can decide when, what to do at any time and what we like. And when I'm working with songwriters, it's not about what I like. And so whether they like something that's more full or, you know, than I do.

It really doesn't matter. It's provoking an awareness, think, or developing an awareness for why did you do what you do? Why do you think that it's important for you to have both of those guitar lines in here instead of just one? And sometimes it's not something we can put into words. And a lot of times we need distance from any project that we're doing or song we're making to be able to...

grow a little more and then look back and listen to it and recognize, I'm now hearing this a little bit more like the average listener is hearing this because I kind of forgot about having worked on it. And so, you know, I think it's just about at any point we have to, if we're in education, I think the job is to meet people where they're at and don't, you know, I try not to assume I know the questions.

that the songwriter is having because they might not be having the same questions that I'm having. And it doesn't do any good for me to say, there's a problem with your song. And for them to say, I don't hear it, there's no teachable moment there. And so I find that the best and most high growth moments are when the songwriter can say, I'm not happy with this song.

and I don't know why, or I don't think it's done. And then I can say, where do you start to feel that there's something off, where it goes off the rails? And just asking that question, then they start to have ideas about where it's going wrong. Sometimes they'll come in and say, I know exactly, I don't like my bridge.

Andrea Stolpe (43:19.867)

But sometimes the problem isn't the bridge. Sometimes the problem is that the song is already too long or the song has already had too many parts. And so to have a bridge come in and say, look how different I am and look how I'm transforming the message to take you to the last chorus. And the bridge didn't even stand a chance because there were two verses and a pre -chorus and a chorus. And by that time it was a minute and a half in and a thousand ideas developed, you know, delivered.

And so we don't always know how to fix what is off. But I think that what I find is that songwriters, and I would say this is true for all of us musicians, when we're really listening to our instinct, to our intuition, we can say something's not right. I just don't know. I haven't asked myself yet where it goes wrong. And then second,

even if I did know, how would I fix it? And that is a terrifying thought. And people who don't write have a difficult time providing writers with tools they can actually use and use in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort to actually hear, here's version A and here's version B.

And there's actually version B is better than A. So anyway, that's where I think we talked about the vulnerability of writing and playing our songs for other people. And I think it's wonderful to play our songs for people for the purpose of our own being able to feel how it feels in the room when someone's listening. And we get that little tinge of, don't like that.

there. You know, there's this feeling of, yeah, that's not my best work. And then usually, you know, people listening have something to say about it and everybody's gonna have something to say about your song if you give them the space to say it. But it's not often useful because again, it's more about the writer and where the writer's at and the questions the writer has and keying into the instinct rather than taking

Brian Funk (45:19.264)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (45:47.22)

other people's ideas and trying to wear them as your own.

Brian Funk (45:54.184)

A lot of the feedback is often pretty abstract too. So it's hard to make sense of it, but there is a, there is a feeling and it's always funny. Anytime I play anything for anybody, it sounds different when they are there. It's like a new mix or something, you know, and sometimes, sometimes I like it more. Sometimes I'm like, man, I was off on this. And, and part of that is even

Andrea Stolpe (45:58.369)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (46:09.087)

It does. It does.

right.

Andrea Stolpe (46:19.797)

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Brian Funk (46:24.108)

Timing, you know, like one thing I like to think about a lot is like what the song is for. When is the song for? Like, this is a great song for like, we're going out to the party. This is perfect. This is a nice song for like winding down after the party. This is one for sitting on the beach. And if you play the like going out for the party song when we're trying to go to bed, it doesn't work in that situation. So sometimes it's a timing thing.

Andrea Stolpe (46:50.699)

Yeah. Yeah.

For sure, for sure, you gotta be in the right mood. Yep.

Brian Funk (46:58.187)

Yeah. Something you mentioned earlier, kind of in the beginning, you were talking about like being specific and universal at the same time. And this is one of the things I enjoy a lot about country music. It's not really my genre to listen to, but I love how specific they can get down to like, you know, the type of truck on the, on the specific road or whatever it is. And

You don't have to have been there to get it. And Bruce Springsteen does this really well too. And I'm very interested in this sort of like selective detail, like when you choose to be that way. when, you know, I teach high school English. I don't think I mentioned that to you. So that's like my grownup job. And

Andrea Stolpe (47:30.048)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely.

Andrea Stolpe (47:42.378)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (47:50.268)

wow.

Andrea Stolpe (47:55.871)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (47:57.014)

You know, there are certain books that you read and it's just like hours and pages of just detail that feels kind of pointless. And for my students, I lose them, you know, so I have to usually skip those sections. But then there's others.

Andrea Stolpe (48:06.046)

Ugh.

Andrea Stolpe (48:10.622)

You take it back to Faulkner in like ninth grade. Yes.

Brian Funk (48:18.735)

Other stories, like the details, pull you in. You read those lines and you're like, yeah, I've never been there, but I get it. In songs, you have so much less space than, say, a novel where you've got tons of room to develop ideas. Songs are more like poems. I describe them to my students. Your novel is like...

Andrea Stolpe (48:27.721)

Right.

Andrea Stolpe (48:36.564)

Yes.

Brian Funk (48:44.754)

a mansion, it's an estate. You've got all these rooms and you can work on ideas and develop them, but like a poem is more like a studio apartment. So every corner is really important. Like what I put on this shelf really matters and the mansion, it doesn't matter. There's shelves everywhere.

Andrea Stolpe (49:02.503)

love that analogy. That's great.

Brian Funk (49:05.204)

Yeah, it's like you have to be very decisive and very deliberate. And I'm curious to just know what you think about that, when to drop those really specific details that take up a line or a couple of lines in a song and when maybe to let them go.

Andrea Stolpe (49:26.109)

Yes, yes, yes.

Brian Funk (49:30.464)

Sometimes you describe something really nice, but it just has to go. It's like beautiful language, but it doesn't help.

Andrea Stolpe (49:38.234)

A lot of songwriters struggle with this. I think we all do because, well, so I attempted to express my thoughts on when to be specific, which we say, we call it putting furniture in a song. So you're describing a thing. It's usually got a tangible noun. It's not freedom. It's the couch in the living room on the shade carpet.

with the coffee table and the lamp, you know. So you're putting stuff in the room like you were talking about. And then there's other language that tells what meaning that stuff has. So this is what we're doing when we write lyrics is we're trying to decide on the weight of the lyric. A heavy, heavy lyric would be like Leonard Cohen, some Leonard Cohen.

where it's gonna be all descriptive, descriptive, descriptive, descriptive. And finally, there's a line that tells me how you feel. This kind of writing, we can kind of associate that with very, it's usually acoustic, it's very lyric driven. So if you take the lyric away,

that song would no longer be something that you can remember or differentiate from other songs. So a lot of Americana folk like Jason Isbell, you can see how talented and experienced and skilled this lyric writer is. And they're able to generate songs that I think rely sometimes very heavily on the lyric.

And then you've got other kinds of music that doesn't rely on that. Some things like Alessia Cara and Zed, or I think it Zed songs like Clarity or Stay, like the lyric is somewhat nonsense. However, I make meaning of it in whatever mood I'm in. And that meaning can change from day to day. So don't know if you'd call that nonsense or just highly sophisticated. It's one or the other.

Andrea Stolpe (52:02.553)

I don't know, but that's the kind of stuff I know, right? It's everything. But it makes sense that that lightweight lyric, it doesn't drag down the production, which is very much the centerpiece of those kinds of songs, you know? And the melody, course. So those are just different skill sets. And when lyrics scare writers, which

Brian Funk (52:05.222)

Often confused easily.

Andrea Stolpe (52:31.874)

very reasonable, we should all be intimidated by them. They're just terrifying. But when you get down into it and you're like, all right, what are words? They're just nouns, verbs, and adjectives. And I've got some pronouns in there and some little things, some is, and, but, yet, still, while. Okay, then there's two other big things to think about, just point of view and tense. And that's it. Close the book. The other thing is we all speak

the language that we're writing in, hopefully. Or you feel competent enough with it that you're writing in it. So conversational quality is another just kind of measurement that you can use to feel more comfortable writing lyrics. So then you realize, well, you know when you're writing a resume and they say, start with the verb, make an inaction. And so, OK.

When you do that in lyrics, the same becomes true. The line kind of livens. So you could say, I'm going to start with a verb. So lumineers do this, and they're not even country, right? They are, the first line is, pack yourself a toothbrush, dear. That's very sensory. It's not, I don't know what I'm doing here, you know, or.

you know, some thought feeling line. It's very sensory and very specific. So we can use specific language, but when I think or how much do you use and when do you move between the two becomes the question. I think the general rule of thumb, if you're not used to using specific language would be get specific early. So right from the top of the song.

and then stay specific a little longer than you feel comfortable doing. So this has a lot of results in our songwriting, but some of them may be that you'll find you're describing more of a moment in the first verse when you do this than biting off the whole song idea and delivering it to the listener.

Andrea Stolpe (54:55.029)

But if think about it, this is how we tell stories, right? If I told you a story about how my husband broke his foot, I just introduced the idea, which is kind of like saying, here's the title. But then if I keep telling you, if I go right into, he was so sad, you know, and it hurt, and yeah, he was pretty upset, and you know, was tough for all of us. Your next question was probably, well, how did he break it? And that's verse. That's like,

well, so he was at hebkido and he came down really hard on the right side of his foot with all of his weight from a kick. I can even tell you which kick it was if I wanted to get more specific. And then he heard a snap and he fell. These are all verse material. After I've told you that, I'm not going to tell you that again. I'm not going to say, and then also there were some kids in the corner eating Cheetos. That's irrelevant.

So I think that we make lyric writing sometimes harder than it needs to be, where if we just recognize this is a form of communication. And like you said, there's a limited amount of space, which means I'm going to tell you the 30 second story of how my husband broke his foot rather than the three minute story. And I'm going to start by showing you where it was, when it happened, and who it happened to, which is very much like

songs do but they don't say and I'm talking about you and me you know it's pack yourself a toothbrush dear okay so the song is already established it's you and me that's what it is I mean it could be we but the pronouns are in there the specific language I make so many inferences from pictures in a song which is the specific language rather than being told how you feel

I no longer need to know how you feel because the music casts the glow on the lyrics so I completely understand. I know if you're scared to pack yourself a toothbrush or if it's, you know what, it's time to go. It's all good. We'll be fine. Music does that. So, you know those lyrics, like I love the 80s but it's all like big and dramatic and you know.

Andrea Stolpe (57:21.839)

It's yeah. And it's like that kind of lyric writing where it feels like we're trying too hard. It's like over singing or over writing, you know. tell songwriter, it's just a song. It's not heart surgery. Just say what you mean. And it's amazing how when we start to talk about what I really wanted to say, what this song is about is those lines should somewhere be in the song, shouldn't they? If that's what you're trying to say. And yes, sometimes

we need to touch lightly or say it in a way that is not like reading a book report or filling out our taxes. But many times we're confused, I think, about how to measure our lyric because we're so far away from what we really actually wanted to say. So then it becomes about making the lines short, for example, making them listenable.

I don't, can I grab the guitar and give you an example?

Brian Funk (58:25.811)

yeah, excellent.

Andrea Stolpe (58:27.808)

I don't know how well this is going to come through. It may not come through. Is it cutting out?

Brian Funk (58:38.699)

Now it's coming through.

Andrea Stolpe (58:39.493)

So let's say, this is a song I was working on just a few days ago. The lines are, there's a boat, powder blue, and the oars are solid wood. So I could sing that as one long line, like, there's a boat, powder blue, and the oars are solid wood.

There's nothing wrong with that, right? Except if it doesn't excite me. So.

So what I did was I'm gonna separate these into very small phrases because I don't know, I just thought it would be interesting to do. So, there's a boat, powder blue, and the oars are solid wood. Okay, so I just had four little lines that describe a boat. You don't know why I'm telling you about the boat. And so if I keep telling you about the boat, you know,

and it's floating by the dock in Philadelphia at noon. I could do that, but I've chosen now to continue with detail, detail, detail, or specifics like you were saying. At some point, if I continue to tell you and the waves are lapping against the side and people are walking by, it's hard to stay specific,

so long because there's no point now to what I'm saying. And there's seaweed floating at the top on the top of the water. And I want to say something like, and isn't it a beautiful day? But that would be a feeling and a thought now. But that's where that's that impulse to tell you why I'm showing you what I'm showing you. So at some point, I think we all have that impulse to go into telling thoughts and feelings.

Andrea Stolpe (01:00:44.031)

most of the time we do it too quickly. So the opposite of that song would be, I've been feeling kind of blue and I'm sadly and I feel like I can't go on because there's, you know, I have trouble getting up. You know, it's just, there's no substance now. So that was too light. The other was too heavy. So there's a middle ground.

Does that make sense?

Brian Funk (01:01:15.75)

Yeah, yeah. You can kind of feel it. For one, when you broke that line up, it came into focus slower. It was kind of nice. I got pulled in slower, but if you keep talking about all those details, I'm kind of like, all right. But if you just jump in with the feeling, I don't care yet either. It's almost too much.

Andrea Stolpe (01:01:22.926)

Mm

Andrea Stolpe (01:01:26.455)

Yes!

Andrea Stolpe (01:01:43.179)

Yeah, nobody cares.

Brian Funk (01:01:45.174)

Too much too soon, right?

Andrea Stolpe (01:01:46.965)

Yeah, yeah, it's like meeting somebody on the street and being like, my God, can I tell you about my divorce? And they're like, what's your name? Who are you? So yeah, it's like, no one cares. No one cares how you feel unless they know you. And they know you care about them. When we write songs, also, we're trying to be good communicators. We're trying to respect our listener and say, look, I know you don't know me.

Brian Funk (01:01:53.045)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:02:15.893)

And I know you don't know what I'm thinking about. And if I'm catching you, like you said, in a mood, and I haven't told a story yet, and I just start right in on my song, and you're wanting to party, and then I start doing this, you know, you're gonna be like, what are you getting me into here? What are we doing together? It's a very intimate space to hold with your listener. the worst thing we can do is to talk at our audience.

And that's, think, where a lot of our songs tend to, and I write all kinds of those too. I'm not immune, no one is. It's the neutral songs that we fear writing, the ones that, well, it's nice, it's nice, but it doesn't connect. Yeah, and yet there's nothing wrong musically, lyrically, nothing at all. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:03:08.002)

But I can feel when you start with the boat, blue.

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:14.079)

Mm

Brian Funk (01:03:16.746)

I'm somewhere now. So I'm like, I'm like with you. And then if you want to tell me like, feel blue, like the boat, then at least I'm like, I'm there, I'm in the scene and I can kind of go along with you. Cause here we are without the kind of like stage setting. It feels a little like, like too much too soon. Like you said, like I just met you on the street and you're now you're like,

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:20.425)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:30.399)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:37.833)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:03:45.61)

dumping your life history on me. Like I'm not there. I'm nowhere. We're just so.

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:47.625)

Right. Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:03:51.882)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:03:54.26)

I think part of what I'm getting to from what you're saying and something I think about once in a while is it's very tempting to try to kind of say it all in the beginning. Like what you were saying about like your husband's foot injury. If you just told me like it was tough and it was hard and you've ran out of stuff to say by the end of the first verse.

Andrea Stolpe (01:04:16.569)

Yes, so true, Brian, so true. And that's what slowing this down does. It means that you're saving yourself conversation for later. And you're also, if something is wrong, which it is in many of our songs, you have to keep people in that moment long enough that they can understand the significance of what is wrong.

You can't just say, it was terrible. And then they're like, my God, I feel how terrible it is. They don't. You have to give time to have people truly appreciate how you're feeling. And it just takes, it doesn't take forever, know, 15 seconds, 30 seconds maybe. And of course the music is always gonna be instrumental in helping people to get there.

Brian Funk (01:05:12.429)

Right, right. And when you mentioned the Lumineers lyric, I thought of a similar song, well, similar lyric kind of in a Radiohead song. think it's on OK Computer. it's where he says like, wake from your sleep, you know, and that's got a much different vibe. It sounds like we're getting, and I think he says like, today we escape and it's an escape. Like we have to get out of here.

Andrea Stolpe (01:05:13.361)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:05:42.407)

Yes. Yes.

Brian Funk (01:05:42.46)

And, you know, whereas that those types of lines, depending on the music could be like, Hey, we're going on a trip. It's going to be great.

Andrea Stolpe (01:05:50.214)

Right, right. Absolutely, the music completes the picture for you. Yes, so it's not just, it's a different, are like texting, whereas music and lyrics is like having an in -person conversation. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:06:06.86)

Hmm. Interesting. Fun way to put it. Nice.

Andrea Stolpe (01:06:11.195)

just thought of that. What you said. But yeah. Yeah, it's really, it's really interesting. But that's what makes songwriting such an amazing craft is I feel like we're, we're, we're creating, but we're also responding to what is being created. I think at our best, you know, recognizing this is how that sounds to me when it comes back.

And now I can infer more about where the song might want to go because of how that sounded.

Brian Funk (01:06:47.22)

I heard an interview with the author George Saunders, I believe it's his name, and I listened to his book after that because of it. But he was talking about writing is mostly reacting to what you just wrote.

Andrea Stolpe (01:06:53.124)

Yeah. Amazing.

Andrea Stolpe (01:07:02.064)

Yes.

Brian Funk (01:07:03.836)

And that stuck with me so much because sometimes you try to think it out too much. I'm to make this song about this and it's going to have this and that. You just don't ever get too far. I don't in those moments. I have to start putting something together and say, okay, like, all right, so we're going to take this. We got these chords now, so let's add the words. Let's add to that line. It's so much, you kind of like almost always need something.

to build on. And of course, like the first step is to make something. But to try to think it out in your head is kind of impossible. And I do that, I try to do it all the time, like before I'm gonna pick up the guitar, what am I gonna do? Well, let's overthink it for an hour.

Andrea Stolpe (01:07:34.362)

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:07:53.303)

Let's open it up for a while. Yeah, yeah. And it's all wonderful, right? We all do that. It's, I guess why we push record and then see if any moments come out later that upon another listen, just we have the impression of something stole us away from our overthinking for a second. Yeah, beautiful thing.

Brian Funk (01:08:14.752)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:08:18.986)

Hmm. So you have some kind of cool opportunities for people. The songwriting retreats you're doing kind of like, looks like a nationwide thing, you're different parts of the world. California, Austin, the UK, Nashville. I just want to hear a little bit about that. This, these sound like some pretty cool adventures. Just so you know, too, last year I was in a songwriting retreat in Monterey with a

Andrea Stolpe (01:08:35.064)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:08:47.18)

about like 10 people and it was so valuable on so many levels, know, just being with people, people that you don't really know yet and becoming vulnerable with them and this like being open and not only just to other ideas, but to criticisms and different styles and different approaches. It was one of the most valuable.

Andrea Stolpe (01:08:49.227)

Ugh.

Brian Funk (01:09:15.38)

learning experiences as a musician and a songwriter I've had in a long time. So I'm curious to hear about yours.

Andrea Stolpe (01:09:21.611)

Yeah, that in -person element, we can get a lot done in a week. So it's a Monday through Friday retreats that we do. And we have all levels, all ages, many different styles represented at each one of the retreats. Usually on Monday, people start out feeling like they're keeping eyes on the door, just in case it doesn't work out.

you know, and we're out in Leith, right?

Brian Funk (01:09:52.749)

I the feeling. I think I was pretty committed to going and especially because the guy that organized it helped set it around my schedule to some degree. But there was a part of me that was kind of like, I don't know if I can do this, like if I need to bail or something, because it's a vulnerable state.

Andrea Stolpe (01:10:07.553)

Yup.

Andrea Stolpe (01:10:14.922)

Yeah, it's right there, totally. Well, it is. I think that's the thing is we all come on Monday feeling like we're one foot in, one foot out. And it's as it should be. It's quite all right. And we get to know the room and we go around and introduce ourselves and tell why we're here and what our intentions are. And it's absolutely incredible. We've done

coming up on 30 retreats now over the last several years. And every single retreat goes the same way, whereby Tuesday night or Wednesday morning, people are so jazzed, so connected, and just really ready to dive in, collaboratively look at ideas that they were developing before that they hadn't been able to finish and resuscitate them.

come up with ideas on the spot and just come back to that creative source that usually at the point that people are coming, you know, to a retreat, it's feeling like, man, or, know, I've been touring a lot or, you know, I'm just not in it right now. I need to get it back. Or people who haven't written in a very, very, very long time, or music was a part of a past life, you know, and you go and have a day job and family and whatever.

know, life happens in between and they come back and are really afraid of will music find me again? Is that even possible? And by Wednesday, we're just a tight -knit group and already worried about goodbyes on Friday. But it's an amazing experience. And after the retreats, people often will continue to meet.

And that's a major part of what we do. think, you know, again, it's the consistency of writing that makes progress in our writing. And so in one week, we can knock down some of the reasons why we're not writing, not setting aside time to do it, or not quick enough to see results, or don't know what to do, you know, when we have time to sit down. So there's a lot of tools that we can.

Andrea Stolpe (01:12:42.044)

immediately go over that'll make some big changes, but in the end it's up to the writers to dedicate their intention, like you said, to moving that boulder forward. And it's definitely easier to do with people that you trust because you've spent a week with them in the mountains somewhere, you know, and you know them and trust them with listening to new material, having feedback for you. So we try to continue to do

many things that will keep people connected as well.

Brian Funk (01:13:17.589)

That's so valuable. mean, in my life as a musician, there's, you know, you can count the number of people you've really connected with and you've had that. to foster that is such a good thing to do. that kind of immersion where everyone's kind of on the same page here, where we're all trying to figure this thing out. It's a great energy to be around.

to just be around people that are searching for that too.

Andrea Stolpe (01:13:51.722)

It is, and to me, think it's clear to me on our retreats when people become so connected, you've got 30 people with each interacting closely with three or four of those people continuously. That's so much more growth than I as one person could ever provide for any.

one writer, you know, and people come, I mean, we're all adults. So there's loads of life experience and musical experience. know, everything from legal help from some people with those backgrounds to people who teach theory or producers, you know, in the groups. So I think that's really the name of the game. And I think to be a responsible and ethical

educator, I feel that it's really important to put a lot of emphasis on that is what can you do together rather than what information you can gain from one person. You know, it's not about that. I can ask the questions and I can, you know, reflect my intuitions, but in the end, it's about developing your own intuitions. And it's much more powerful when done in a larger group.

Brian Funk (01:15:22.368)

I would imagine you get quite a lot out of it yourself, learn all kinds of new things. Good teachers tend to do that.

Andrea Stolpe (01:15:25.33)

I do. I do. I do. I always get inspired. Yeah, I always get super inspired by the retreats. Everybody there who comes, I see them working on their own personal struggle and having victories in ways they never imagined. There's people who will say on Monday, I don't sing. And on Thursday, they're up there, know, clutching the microphone.

as if they've been, you know, it's like, well, here goes. It's amazing. Yeah. And it's, it's awesome to see that. And I think, you know, it would really be a disservice from me if I were to underestimate how the environment that I have been lucky enough to be able to provide, how pivotal that can be in some people's

Brian Funk (01:15:58.454)

Right? Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:16:24.614)

lives, you know, and it's all because of them, what they've determined to make of it, know, the risks that they decide to take. Yeah, it's awesome.

Brian Funk (01:16:33.184)

Yeah, it sounds great. I know on your website you've got a lot of dates already, some to be determined. quite busy.

Andrea Stolpe (01:16:43.274)

Yes, we're very close to releasing the 2025 dates. So yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:16:49.568)

Yeah. That's cool. Let me ask you one more thing. I noticed behind you sitting on one of your monitors, it looks like. You've got that grumpy old Muppet character, the critic. I forget his name. He's got a partner that's not there. he's on the other one. Okay. What are they doing there? Do you think you want to keep them away from the creative process?

Andrea Stolpe (01:16:58.733)

huh.

I do.

Andrea Stolpe (01:17:06.698)

Yes, he is. He's on the other side. Yeah.

No.

Andrea Stolpe (01:17:17.104)

that's so funny. You know what? I think there is a little bit of an embrace the cynicism, the skeptic, you know? A little bit of that feeling of, don't worry, it's just, like I said before, it's just a song. It's just a song. Because it can definitely feel like an identity at times, and it helps me to remember, you know what, there's other things. I don't...

Brian Funk (01:17:33.249)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:38.453)

Right, right.

Andrea Stolpe (01:17:44.202)

wake up at 2 a anymore to write ideas down. I mean, I might wake up and I'm like, I'm not getting up to write this down because part of the thinking is there's no scarcity here. You know, I'll have ideas tomorrow when I have time to sit down and write, but I'm going to nurture and respect all parts of me when I can. And sometimes that means I'm going to sleep through it. If I wrote down every idea I had,

for the purpose of using it, I would spend all my time moving ideas around instead of finishing things. So I guess I believe that everything is in there floating about and do I lose things? Probably. Was it the thing that's gonna make or break the best song I ever wrote?

I don't need to worry about that. I just need to make time and space to connect with good ideas, things that I think are worth writing and make me happy. And that's my job. And if I've done that, then I'm doing what I need to do to be accessible. And that's OK.

Brian Funk (01:18:59.201)

I think it's a good way to look at it. If you start thinking everything's precious, like, I got an idea. like, then you start thinking like, like it is scarce and it is, it's rare. And it's just a switch in the mind really to just say like, we'll come up with more ideas. Like, you know, it's fine. Instead of like, I can't believe I didn't remember that idea. I should have wrote it down. Such a, it's a much worse place to be starting the creative process from.

Andrea Stolpe (01:19:05.162)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:19:12.574)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:19:20.594)

Right. Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:19:28.23)

It is, it is. And sometimes I obsess over a song and I'll be thinking about it for three days until I finish. having the ability to turn that off too is important to me. I know some people can't turn it off. It's just the music is always there. yeah, but life is real. I get distracted a lot. I get interrupted a lot. I think in this podcast I get interrupted.

And so rather than say, well, I can't write like this. I'm going to put it, you know, put the guitar in a box for seven years until kids grow up, for example. You know, and I recognize that's not everybody's situation, but I had to find a way to continue to be creative or it was goodbye to music. And that's not an option. So as a, as a life force for me and a

income, I had to find a way to make it work. And so part of this discussion really is I got to get real sometimes and say, yes, this is a creative, la -di -da, know, purple sparkle cloud sometimes, but other times it's got to be like, I got to get this done. This demo has to get done, you know. Yeah. So again, it gets back to the tools and we all come at this with different ideas of what we want it to be.

the role we want music to serve in our life. And I think that needs to be integrated into the bigger picture. But the tools are at the heart of making tangible what is intangible. So I rely on them every day. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:21:13.334)

Yeah, well said. Yeah, was thinking that whenever I finish a song or anyone else finishes a song, I like to marvel at the amazement of you've pulled something out of thin air. You've created something out of nothing. And it is special. It is worth celebrating and, you know, however you figure it out. having the tools to get you there is a very important part of it. I think it's awesome that you're

Andrea Stolpe (01:21:23.202)

Yeah.

Andrea Stolpe (01:21:29.581)

It is.

Brian Funk (01:21:42.76)

sharing that. I've personally benefited from it very much and I know many others have as well.

Andrea Stolpe (01:21:49.229)

I'm so glad. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:21:53.676)

Well, we'll send people to your website where they can, you know, find the, if they want to get on the retreat, you've got a lot of other cool things. The 30, is it the 30 minutes songwriting? Sorry, I the songs 30 minutes.

Andrea Stolpe (01:22:05.915)

The 30 -day songwriter. Yeah. No.

Brian Funk (01:22:09.868)

30 day songwriter, sorry about that. But there's just a wealth of really useful information there. So thank you for putting that out and I encourage everyone that's listening to go check it out.

Andrea Stolpe (01:22:23.995)

Thank you so much.

Brian Funk (01:22:38.7)

Cool, cool. All right. So thank you and thank you to everyone listening.

Andrea Stolpe (01:22:43.973)

Thank you so much. I had a great time. It was fun to talk.

Brian Funk (01:22:48.266)

Yeah, awesome. Cool, I'll hit stop.

Andrea Stolpe (01:22:50.21)

All right.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, Andrea stolpe